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May 21st, 2007

Utterly insensitive and grossly unprofessional. That is what I’d call someone who does not respect diversity at work-place. While there are many forms to this problem, the one that I’d like to post about is the one in which male colleagues take to crude, unpleasant, biased discussions about women, well before their women counterparts. Consider the man who chooses to discuss seriously the ‘injustice’ of the 3 month long maternity leave, referring to it as ‘they simply sit at home and get paid for nothing’. Believe it or not, some have the cheek to discuss this before a minor number of women colleagues at a lunch table or even during the non-work discussion at team meetings.

Is he doing this well-aware of how just the concept of maternity leave is, in terms of benefits given to someone with a health risk and as a duty towards society? Does he well-intentionally, mean to discuss this as a joke which will make every woman who is present around the table uncomfortable, regardless of whether she can voice out her discomfort or not? Or is he so unthinking, so careless, so casual, so immature, so uneducated that he does not realise the importance of maternity leave? Or, he probably thinks, ‘Come on man, a joke is a joke, she is supposed to take things in the right spirit!’!

That is just one instance, there are numerous little things, jokes, conversations, casual statements, which men unthinkingly make at work-place, completely disregarding how they might discomfort the women around. There can be something as nonchalant as a manager asking the male employees who work under him, to join him for a smoke outside. Am not sure his women employees will want to take that in the right spirit, after all, they do want to bond with the manager too! Why should your gender, or a smoking status, be the reason for your manager to know what kind of tasks you prefer, or what problems you’re facing interacting with others, or to know you better? Imagine the lady manager discussing the current project status and such-like with her employee in the ladies rest-room. Would you, as another in her team, like that?

Few of your smoking team-mates might do the consoling with ‘Oh, come on, we don’t really discuss work, we mostly gossip about foreign bosses’. That gets you all the more envious, you so want to know the inside story too. Why won’t the manager share it with you, simply because you donot smoke!? It kills the team spirit, do you realise? This is probably not something that can be voiced even, what do we do? Coo to the boss, ‘Please do call me when you go down to smoke, I want to come too!’!!?

Then this recent talk about the 8pm curfew for women. There were bunches of male colleagues discussing how men must work day and night while women are the ones who can enjoy the perks of the company and the state. They held up the joke Cyrus Broacha cracked, how it might be a better idea to draw a 8pm curfew for the men, instead of the women! Am not saying the law was right, it was rubbish. But discussing it in the vein of how it is unfair to men, instead of something along the lines of how this will undoubtedly rip apart all efforts towards an equality at the work-place, might have been much less unpleasant.

Some things are off course a joke, all of us love jokes, don’t we? But not when it gets unpleasant, hurts, or somehow seems to make a derogatory statement about ourselves. Tell me if this sounds like a nice joke, a colleague, after the news piece of Shanti Sounderajan who was stripped of her medal at the Asian games upon a failed gender test, goes ‘Somehow I feel, these south indian women are not very feminine and donot even look like female.’. It would get my blood boiling, even though I may not be south indian women. It is a grotesque statement. You are probably wondering if there are men like this at work places today. Oh yes, there are! Lots of them abound, just hear them speak!

There are diversity workshops held by the Human Resources departments of most companies these days. They attempt to motivate a healthy work environment, making people aware that there might be jokes which not everyone would enjoy, that there might be people with different points of view, different lifestyles, different people! Unfortunately, most such indelicate people look at workshops like this as a waste of time, or at best a good way to spend time in office and yet not have to put in work! What is sad is, this is not something that can be very strictly enforced, or checked for violation. This is something that people feel and not always voice, the discomfort of the minority.

There is probably a little exercise all of us can take. A very small thing to ensure that we are not on the wrong. Ask yourself the following, have your jokes ever caused someone to look away or not laugh along? Would your statements, though seemingly nonchalant, while with friends at work, cause anyone to not hang around with you? Does your treatment of team-mates bear any shades of a partiality? Lastly, do you really believe in the equality of men and women at work? If not, its about time you changed your beliefs, for your own good!

31 Crumbs for this post
gauravjain says:

i agree with a lot of the stuff said up there. however i think there is a line to be drawn for political correctness. we live in a world that has gone completely overboard with being PC.

Shirsha says:

Hmm, ppl are more conscious of saying the politically correct stuff.

But all am trying to shout out is, plz be considerate of your words/actions in the work-place if they, unintentionally hurt minorities, particularly women. Simply to ensure a better work environment for the team!

gauravjain says:

sexual harrasment aside, i do think that people need to lighten up. a country as diverse as India really needs to be on the tolerant side so long as nothing is malicious.

Shirsha says:

Nope Gaurav, you aren’t getting me right. I am definitely not talking about sexual harassment! That is a big thing and every company has laws in place t otackle an issue that big…

smallsquirrel says:

gaurav… I think it’s really easy to say “lighten up” when you are a man! I have a very healthy sense of humor and I can take a joke as well as the next man. But some things are just not funny. So in this case sexual harassment cannot be easily put aside for women.

My boss actually said to me that he doesn’t like to hire women because we cost the company too much money when we go on maternity leave. In the US I would have sued his ass, but here I just had to make a face and leave the room. It’s a common view held by many of the men in the office.

If guys argue with the boss, they are being critical thinkers. When I do it, I am being difficult.

There are a million such examples. I know you men think India has become more progressive. And maybe it has. But it certainly has not reached the level of other countries, and it has a long way to go. Being PC is a load of crap, but India could use a small dose of it. I am sick and tired of colleagues treating me like a second-class citizen. All Shirsha was asking you to do is to examine your own behavior and see if you contribute to that. If you don’t… good on you! You’re in the minority!!!

(ps I say that not because I think all men are chauvinists or hate women. I say it because I think sometimes people, ALL people, have no idea what it’s like to be on the other side of the fence, so to speak)

desh says:

Phew….calm down shirsha
btw frst i have heard of companies whch give a paternity leave too…
neway in my organisation i have come across an instance whr a very good employee shifted her project aftr maternity leave as mayb it was thought she wont b able to pickup aftr th long break…somethngs r good in my company though…ladies bring thr babies at workplace…n they r given a seperate workplace whr they can tc of thr child n njoi th work too….:)
but again lots of thngs u said thr…ppl do crack jokes n everyone is party to them…mayb a sanity check before crackin a joke is essential.
take th karnataka govt playin with th order for women not to work at nite….quite a stupid idea to cmin from th govt.
equality shud be embded in th culture of workplace so tht ppl dont take it as a matter of joke…sometimes th skewness of the male-female ratio adds to the thngs u said…
quite an agressive post though, th whole way i felt tht u wr scolding me :)

gauravjain says:

Squirrel,

No one in their right mind should and would condone sexual harassment. i have had women work for me on contract and i have been very clear about the kind of water cooler talk etc that will be allowed.

When the women ran out their contract the guys stick to their usual mode and haven’t turned into raging perverts.

i personally don’t find it offensive at all when your boss tells you his aversion to hiring women because of a perceived loss due to maternity leave. Simply because it is a point of view and isnt malicious or intended to hurt (the way i see it)

i would find a great deal of off colour jokes more offensive than that.

I would def say that the person is ignorant and maybe stupid but i dont think suing him would be warranted. America is all together too litigious a society.

A bunch of malls, Vuitton bags and Mojitos, and wheelbarrow full of one night stands don’t equal progressiveness.

Were still a bunch of ignorant sheep led by half baked politicians furthering their own agenda.

Sheep get slaughtered.

shakfoo says:

Since when is child bearing a “duty towards society”? Puhleez Shirsha, lets take off the rose tinted glasses! If you ask me, given the population explosion that we in India are facing it’s more of a duty to our society and the country if one were not to procreate at all or possibly think about adopting one of the hundreds of neglected and otherwise unwanted childern that are left to fend for themselves on the streets of our cities and towns everyday.

smallsquirrel says:

Well it’s just part of a culture that he’s fostering… he’s a person who doesn’t respect women. And I am sorry, but you do not say that to a woman in her 6th month of pregnancy. It is HIS responsibility to run his company and not whine at me. I bet he wasn’t whining when his own wife took her maternity leave for all 3 of their kids. Because believe me, he wasn’t at home helping out. What he did (with that comment, among others) is to create a hostile workplace environment. Him saying that leads others, my juniors, to think the same as him. It undermines my authority as a supervisor.

And making women feel uncomfortable in the workplace does not have to be as aggressive and obvious as leering and gross comments. It can be the things that Shirsha mentioned. When subtle comments keep coming, they can make you as uncomfortable as someone telling you your top makes your boobs look nice.

I agree, America is too litigious a society. But this guy would deserve it.

And what do Louis Vuitton bags have to do with anything?

gauravjain says:

He undermines your authority how? it doesnt make you out to be bad at what you do because he isn’t commenting at your skill set or job performance.

Other comments may be on the mark (since i dont know i cant say) but that specific statement does not sound hostile at all.

Chances are the dude is an a**hole but not for the comment in question.

PS.if you dont like Vuitton how about Prada ?

smallsquirrel says:

Uh, when you make a comment like that about the ONLY woman in a position of authority in a company in a staff meeting, what you are implying is that women are somehow inferior. You are saying that women have less value to the company, because we have to take time off to have babies whereas men can just work work work. He said nothing about my 14 hour days, my taking less leave than 1/2 these men… despite illness, doctors’ visits and the like.

again, prada, vuitton, lacroix, jacobs… I don’t care… just dunno what it has to do with this conversation

gauravjain says:

i dont get women being inferior from that comment. i get someone with a very narrow minded short termed outlook towards employee relations but i don’t get hostility.

you just stated your value - you take less time off and put in more hours. to me that just means your boss is an ignorant idiot who doesn’t know the value of people working with him.

here is the context about the bag comment.

“A bunch of malls, Vuitton bags and Mojitos, and wheelbarrow full of one night stands don’t equal progressiveness”

smallsquirrel says:

I don’t see how you cannot see the connection. 15 men in a room and one woman. The CEO says says to the only woman in the room that he doesn’t like to hire women because of maternity leave. You take the mind of some impressionable fresher who already doesn’t like being supervised by a woman, and in his mind he thinks the boss has said that women cannot and do not do as good of a job as women. He’s saying to his staff that impact on the bottom line is more important that someone’s individual participation. He’s more than intimating that women are not worth the trouble.

Everything has plusses and minuses. He chose to highlight the negative totally inappropriately.

And again, I got the line, gaurav… I don’t get what it has to do with what we’re talking about….

smallsquirrel says:

oops, typo… I meant ” and in his mind he thinks the boss has said that women cannot and do not do as good of a job as men”

Shirsha says:

Shakfoo, child-bearing is not what I said was a duty to society, but maternity leave is. ‘Puhleez’ do read! Hence we have a Maternity Benefits Act, 1961.

Gaurav, lets try this. Imagine you’ve had a miserable fall, leading to a slip disc, which will need strict-bed-rest of 6 weeks, followed by extensive physiotherapy of another 6 weeks. Would you take it lightly if your manager cribs about the perceived loss thanks to your stupid accident!? He forgets the long hours you have put in, the weekends you slogged to grab the project, the extra-sincerity and dedication you have shown all the time at work, and at that moment only talks of this inconvenience, caused by your accident. Does that sound fair to you? It is only right your employer provides for your medical claims during this period, so that you might make a speedy return to your job, and come back to work with same zeal and vigour as before. His cribbing around this time might cause to put other team-mates of yours at ill-ease. They might wonder, if we have a medical emergency, this is the kind of treatment we might get from this boss.

gauravjain says:

i wouldnt like it. but it cant be denied that the team does lose out on manpower and hands.

smallsquirrel says:

well then do I get to whine in the meeting that I work 14 hour days, sometimes 7 days a week and I don’t get paid for it? there is a tradeoff with everything… and you do not blame your employees for things like that. You keep it to yourself and realize it is what happens in business.

gauravjain says:

agreed. i never condoned his saying what he said. to me he is a weak boss. but i didnt find it hostile.

smallsquirrel says:

well, you wouldn’t because you have NO IDEA what it is like to be a woman.
we’re trying to tell you, but you’re so busy telling us why we shouldn’t be offended that you’re missing the point.

we’re offended.

it creates a hostile environment because it encourages others in that same thought pattern. so then juniors are making inappropriate comments about womens’ ability to perform because the boss opened the door and made it clear that it’s OK to say things like that.

gauravjain says:

i just got married. i have no idea about anything.

i just dont see the universal offense in this. you might be offended. i dig it.

smallsquirrel says:

ooooooooh, see that is all you had to say. LOL… still in training :P

gauravjain says:

training is over. all i have to say is,

of course you are right.

end of argument.

smallsquirrel says:

until we see through that particular ruse. ;)

thinktank says:

loved the above exchange…on a parallel tract, i think women in general should stop thinking and projecting themselves as victims or as “minorities”. You are as strong as u believe u are. And the world will believe in you only if you do so yourself.

Anyway, Smallsquirrel, you should have put your boss in his place rather than just make a face - if u cud get gauravjain to see your point of view, i’m sure u cud have done the same with your boss! Set him straight next time. Ask him if he thinks he just magically fell from the sky - did his mother not have to go thru the stuff that u have to go thru? :-)

smallsquirrel says:

oh I have tried.. believe me. that is how I got the label of being belligerent. I work for some pretty ridiculous men who subscribe to the “yessir” school of running a business. it’s also why I am leaving the company.

I am not one to sit quietly and take my lumps. I have been raised to be strong and say what I think. In the US I was highly paid and highly valued by the companies where I worked for just such reasons! I do not think this particular company is indicative of the Indian work environment in general, rather just an example of what can happen when chauvinists run companies. Not sure why they hired me to begin with… maybe just some experiment or something.

I also agree that women should not see themselves as victims or overreact to every little thing. That does more harm than good. You stand up when you see a real act of injustice and you try to find the humor where you can. I think in India women are just finding their voices, and it takes time to get comfortable with that. Everyone must be patient with everyone else. :)

gauravjain says:

just as an aside, there is a perfectly polite, calm way of telling someone that he/she is being a jackass. if done in that manner, the others understand your not some half wit spoiling for a fight but someone much smarter.

game - set - match.

smallsquirrel says:

I agree, and I am well versed in that art. One does not climb the corporate ladder by being a reactive, emotional freakshow. You learn that as a fresher. Outbursts and making the boss look bad in public do not get you anywhere.

But when it’s someone who is only used to hearing “yes, sir” anything else becomes a problem. Also, as I said before… when guys in the office disagree it is one thing, but when a girl does it… whoa whoa.

gauravjain says:

it is at these points that i thank my stars i get to be the freakshow box rather than the frustrated employee who might go postal.

thinktank says:

Bosses can be really twisted. I once had a boss who didn’t like me bcoz i never laughed at his stupid jokes while all the others in the group sucked up to him. And he actually told me this at an appraisal!
Now i’m my own boss and having experienced @#$ bosses, i know i’ll deal with employees differently…

smallsquirrel says:

Bosses *can* be twisted. At one of my previous stints at a top 3 consulting firm, my boss screamed at me for tilting my head while listening to one of his 45 minute rants. When he yelled I was shocked. He accused me of being disrespectful. I burst out laughing at him. I had another boss argue with me about something that eventually caused his own board of directors to vote him out of a job (I told him about the issue up front and warned him, but he told me I was “overreacting” and did not know what I was talking about).

I am lucky though, I have really only had 3 shitty bosses in my life, and my last boss what the best EVER. When I left the company to move to India, I was given a party, a huge thank you speech, an open invitation back to my job (they email every 3 months to ask for me back) and a $500 Coach handbag! How’s that for cool bosses?!?!??!?

Candy says:

That Coach handbag would have done it for me! :) That’s just brilliant! Just the right way to get any female employee to go back to an ex-employer.

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