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June 4th, 2007

Way back in college, while preparing for Group Discussions (also known as GD), one of the rare topics that we came across during our mock-GDs was _ ‘Do students, who are the best academically, go on to make it as the best, professionally?’. There were several variants of this topic too, but they all triggerred us to think this, if we have good marks (its so long since I used those words!), will we also be the smartest, or let’s say, the most wanted, employee around?

We all know, there are about tons of changes that happen in life, as one goes through the phase of being a student to chilling it out at work! But this is a story of what happens if you are a good student, getting all those good grades, all diligent, disciplined, not-lazy, hard-working, sincere, and more often than not, the apple of your teacher’s eye. If you were none of the above, still, you’ve got to read on, for this is also a story of one who was not any of those things that might have earned him the ‘good’ before the student. Which of these two went on to being the highest rated employee later on? Is there a fixed formula that can be applied to know which students crack the scene at work and which don’t?

Let’s begin with why we want to know the answer to these questions. My idea is to figure out if there is a direct correlation between your grades and marks and your performance at work. For, is it not this very point on which most companies rely on, to select their candidates? Is it not this, that preconditions an interviewer’s mind on what to expect from the interviewed? Is it not all about marks and percentages for a freshman? Why else do they have cut-off percentages for candidates who can attend the written test, which is like step one for the selection procedure, at most companies?

In a quest for answers to doubts such as those above, here is what I observe _

> Students who are all about living in that moment, donot go much further. To elaborate, students who are studying for the upcoming exams, with answering all questions in the question paper perfectly, the only thing on their mind, are less likely to absorb the actual course content. They rigorously work out old question papers, seek answers to those odd questions, which have never repeated but may do so this year, revise answers to problems, go all over the extra mile! For all their hard-work they are often, at the end, left with little knowledge of what the course was all about. But, they do know the answers to the questions in the question paper really well. So, with this kind of half-knowledge, it is not really surprising that they often donot reach up to the mark at work. Needless to say, this is not always the case, but this is often the case.

> Lazy students remain lazy all life. Once the seeds of indiscipline get planted in your personality, you are unlikely to let go off it, remaining a person who wants the easy way out, all your life. A hasty exam preparation will get you the marks, but indicipline is evil and continues to corrupt your system. You will find life is unfair, hikes are unfair, performance ratings are unfair, but never attributing this injustice to your own indifference to a thorough performance.

> For some, it has to be the area of interest. There are two kinds of people when it comes to work _ One, the kind who will put in an almost thorough effort at the work assigned, regardless of whether they like what they are doing or not, whether it gives them the kicks or not. They are often consoling themselves, encouraging themselves, pushing themselves ahead telling themselves this is the practical way! The other kind requires the right kind of work and the right kind of environment to contribute effectively. This kind really flourishes and rises upto its ultimate height provided the right impetus. The heights achieved by such folks are usually much greater than those achieved by the less-stimulated ‘practical’ kinds. But hey, there is no right or wrong about this, we do need folks of all kinds to keep a project moving!

> The small drops and the mighty ocean. Performers can again be classified as those who contribute in little amounts, facilitating the mighty performers and then, those who contribute big, because an idea struck them big. I am guessing these two kinds of contributors are born out of the two kinds of people _ one kind that spends all its life working out life’s little problems, winning life’s little battles, merely getting the work assigned completed and awaiting the next task. Then the other kind, that spends all its life day-dreaming, thinking of big ideas, big problems and big solutions, they are not just getting the work assigned completed, but are also thinking up the next step.

> Domestic challenges affecting work. As a student, we are protected, pampered and kept away from facing life’s real challenges, often. Rarely, if ever, did we have to stand the queue to pay the electricity bill and then go to attend school, but while working, there is something or the other that needs to get done, every day, in order to keep the home running. In other words, we get domesticated! We have to time-share between work and domestic duties, unlike as students, when all we had to do was either study or relax! Or should we read this as, how well do you multi-task?

> Some folks are happy with being average. Unfortunately, this is something that gets moulded earlier as a kid. If your folks didn’t push you enough, its unlikely you went on to do closer to your maximum capability. Pushing / encouraging is different from exerting undue pressure. Such folks are happy achieving 50% of what they set out to achieve. It is sad that so much capability gets wasted, but they dont seem to care! Even at work, they are happy just earning the daily bread, they donot seek excellence. They donot feel the need to innovate, they donot bring new ideas or energy to work.

> Getting a job is not a destination. But some of us end up thinking so. ‘Gotten myself a job that I like’ is often the ultimate ambition a student possesses. While this is good, it is also necessary that one recasts one’s ambitions after crossing the ‘gotten myself a job that I like’ phase! Otherwise, stagnation is bound to happen, leading to a decremental effect on the performance at work and a disappointment to your employer who pinned big hopes on to you.

With observations such as these, am thinking its the personality which decides the performance at work. However, there are little pointers one can get about the kind of employee a student will lead on to, from the marks transcripts. A student with the best marks may not always make it as the best performer at work, but someone with below average marks is unlikely to turn out to be a good performer. But most importantly, you can gauge yourself perfectly, to know how you will fare, and the changes you are going to need to fare even better.

Off course, in this whole quest we have kept counterproductive agents at work aside, like bad bosses, sensitive issues at work, pay, benefits and the company itself. Those which require a separate zooming in, a whole new quest!

16 Crumbs for this post
Kshama says:

Hi. Nice article. Progress in work and being a good student does not have much of correlation. Just like studies require lots of hard work even work requires. But then sometimes with passage of time the zeal and enthusiasm to perform and lead fizzles out. And academic brilliance and maturity at work is not related. Work calls for different dimensions like maturity, group work, endurance etc etc.,

Shirsha says:

Oh yes Kshama, academic brilliance has little to do with maturity at work. But if you have been lazy in school you might still be lazy :)
Excelling in school and at work requires different kinds of effort and thinking and hard work, as you said…

gauravjain says:

we have a very narrow aspect of interests when it comes to school. Most kids dont know what they are interested in. Kids with an aptitude for math, science and regurgitation have it better than kids with no aptitude for math, science or regurgitation.

Aspects of management, leadership, arts are largely ignored and left for discovery and development in extra-curricular arenas or to be propelled by self-interest.

Shirsha says:

Gaurav, if I get what you’re saying right, then you must be meaning that people who hope to have a career in fields which donot involve science or maths get to start much later in life, because our schooling doesn’t provide for it in the main stream. In a way you are right. But I feel some basic science and maths is a kind of development of the aptitude of the student, which is reqd even if you dont want to flourish in a career which will directly involve the two.
Something like the funda that pressure reduces the boiling point of water is a knowledge necessary for absolutely everyone, no?
To get into aspects of management, understanding basic maths is reqd, no?

gauravjain says:

oh, they are absolutely necessary. what i meant was that as things get more complex the divide is greater. Also there is very little focus on any kind of leadership or non curriculum related

i was fortunate enough to go to a school and college that loved kicking the shit out of its students.

i remember my Freshman year in college abroad (circa 1997) sitting in a class and kids had to introduce themselves and say a little about what they did. i was 17 and most other kids were 17-18. Class of about 25 kids, one had a record label, one had created a board game, some were working full time (40 hours a week) some managed stores. Some seriously capable folk.

Fortunately for me i got a chance to travel a lot, very early on in life and it allowed me to stack up and not feel left behind.

Point being, there is someone out there, that works twice as hard, sleeps half as much.And experiences that much more. Has seen and done things, we don’t even think about.That is the real competition.

9/10 times SAT’s SSC’s have very little to do with it. It may get you in the door but you will never be able to stay there just because of some numbers.

Shirsha says:

“9/10 times SAT’s SSC’s have very little to do with it. It may get you in the door but you will never be able to stay there just because of some numbers.”
True, unless you manage to not slack, just because there aren’t numbers to measure you anymore.

thinktank says:

It all boils down to what u wanted as a kid - what were your dreams - did u want to be a leader, a follower, an innovator. Did u have big ambitions ? did u want to study well and find a secure job? It doesn’t matter if u were just an average student academically. If you are the sort of person who has the drive to be something in life, you will find the tools to fulfill your dreams… I’m saying it’s more about personality than anything else…

Shirsha says:

Sure it is about personality, but perhaps something abt the personality the numbers do signify? No?

Naveen says:

Academics indicate personality, no doubt, Also it indicates the right personality for success in academics :-) Success in life, work, different…..yes the factors of your persona that contributed to the success in academics could be one of the factors that aid in your long term as well.

So to summarize mathematically or logically.
Personality traits for success/failure ( Environment, Strength, motivation, determination, competitiveness, laziness(my favorite as a s/w engg)) subset of the traits for success in work or life in general.

Moreover let me just prove to you to some extent that your strength once could be your future weakness and weakness your greatest strength.

Lets take memory, I am sure many wouldn’t deny the role of memory in performing very well academically. But in life the same would prevent your from overcoming your bad events in life. You find it hard to erase certain rough times in life.

Ok, now for laziness, See it is the laziest of guys the software guys who come up with greatest of inventions in life. It is your laziness to run the test case time and again that forces you for automation. So a weakness today could be the strength you are looking at.

That was a bit exaggerated I agree, but then you have to realize that academically you succeeded because of your personality. How beneficial/retarding the same traits will be in your future life is a mystery…

But the truth is no one for sure knows what are his strengths and weaknesses until he completes his education, for some even till later in the life. So if the individual during this period is able to carefully analyze what he wants and where he stands, he “Can” ….. Whether he “will” or “wont” is a next thing that is defined by a whole lot of things :-)

Shirsha says:

Naveen, thats a good point you made abt how a weakness can translate to a strength in the days to come and a strength to a weakness.

Let’s take that laziness you were talking abt and how that sparked the brilliant idea of automation. Brilliant indeed, but unfortunately our performances at work are more of a continuous evaluation. Dont you think so? They may or may not remember how you scripted those automation scripts, but they will remember how you never met the deadlines, when they consider you for a promotion! Unfortunately, life’s like that!

Then again, I’d say that was fair, a few specks of bright ideas will not make a good leader, as you climb up the career ladder. How’d you like a mentor who has a number of patents to his name, but hardly ever comes to office to guide his juniors at work? Although he’d be an asset to his company, he’d be a bad mentor. A project mgr who misses important calls with his clients would not impress the top bosses, even though he came up with a brilliant process.
If someone is lazy enough to not feel responsible for his work, be it academics or work assigned, will fall short of expectations. Don’t you agree?

As for memory, lets not get technical about kinds of memory, and what the bad event is, etc. If you feel responsible for your work, you will contribute to it as best as you can, and not trout up a personal tragedy for your poor performance. In fact, they say, hard work can be a good way to forget personal tragedies!

Ashley says:

I agree with Shirsha, academics is not the last thing in world to be successful. Some people get the realization that they have to do something for living very late. As kidsthey just want to have fun and understand whatever is around them. I don’t believe academic success always translates to professional success.
Haven’t we seen many school/college drop outs to go forward and become most successful entrepreneurs !

Naveen says:

Shirsha, Good point you have got. But lemme add my views on a few of them. First point, yes you are saying that in appraisal they would know you by the mistakes you have made, erred along the line rather than patents and stuff. But then you are not known to the world, by your appraisal rating in one company. So at the most such perception of others can define you for just those few years you are in that company. But then to the world you are a genius. But life is bigger than that. Its not about a few years in an organization.
One more thing is that in an organization as such or life as such, we require varied talents. If you carefully analyze how this life works you realize that the output of one thing somewhere, sometime will form the input to another. Ok so the manager did nothing to benefit the customers, clients. But he did something that revolutionized the very process and made the future clients happy. So isn’t that an achievement. So what if the company doesn’t recognize it today. And if you remember my earlier point, the success or perso8nal achievement each one defines in their own way. Also let me add the case of mentors you mentioned. Infact how many times have we noticed a good mentor, someone who has several hundred patents, technically brilliant unable to even convey a single idea to his juniors. And then people have a bad opinion about him. But then organization still perceives him as technically brilliant person. And even the world perceives him that he is a genius.
Assume all your life you had been working on something that would revolutionize the sciences, and your work was just a means of survival. So not everyone thinks that the work they are doing for money is their ultimate goal. But we have to accept the fact that there is not much we can do about the kind of work we get to do…How many of us are in a position to decide what kind of work we want to do. I guess very few. So money, appraisal are just a part of the game. And if at all anyone thinks that there exists a fair appraisal system then he must be fooling himself. The truth is there is no logic in appraisal system. And one should not worry about that in the long run.

After saying all this i feel, i am just wondering what is the point of discussion here !!!! :D

CheerS

Shirsha says:

Hmm, we seem to have swayed far from the point of this post in our enthusiastic conversation about appraisals and patents and definitions for success and where laziness might get one!

Lets try to get back to what this was about _
Consider this small exercise, its your own new venture, a new company you have started, you are recruiting freshers, would you take on someone who doesn’t have the marks, but whose fundas seem to be alright(?), he says marks are merely indicative of his performance on the day of the exam, on which day he wasn’t upto it. Would you take your chances on such a candidate and give him a job?

Frankly, I might only keep him as a backup, can’t pin my big hopes on a candidate who screws up a big exam because he wasn’t upto it!

Naveen says:

Alright, now lets get back to the academics!! So to what extent do we see academics. First class, distinction, higher 80s, 90s. But then if you find someone who hasn’t scored that well but has talent, here of course the most important thing is we don’t take him cause he has scored less. We have an interview. But he has screwed up his exam for whatever reason. But you realize that he can code, he is technically good wont you take him. Of course one point is that if you already have a high cut off, he may not make it at all. But have you seen that its neither the higher nor the lower bottom who perform well. Its the avg guys who normally end up. Also one more accepted point is that the company prefers diversity. So don’t you think that refers to a proper mix of various academic records, GOOD and BAD. But one thing that the company doesn’t compromise is the interview. There is always an interview. So at the interview as you said earlier a first impression is always the marks. But then if you take a small poll you will realize that people(interviewers) don’t consider that academically brilliant are technically brilliant as well. So the odds of proving that you are technically good is still a talent. To prove my point the top rankers most of the time are the last placed during campus times(most of the times). No I am not trying to generalize the statement, but most of the times it is still the talent that counts. To add it is an aptitude that is the first round. :- ) Yes much before comes the cutoff. So we decide whether we ant to build a company like google or any other small company which has 99% cut off.

shourya says:

deee deeee.. Very good write up.. though i dont really agree with all the points in my case , albeit that i havent really gotten a hang of work life. such as it would’nt b fair to blame the parents if the child is happy enough being ‘average’ . ‘average’ again is a critical word. what would seem like average to you or me would be the perch of happiness for few and at the end of the day, it all comes down to being happy.. be it average or the best YOU r HAPPY ? no?
point 2: again, at times certain below average students tend to strike big. and i mean HUGE !! take examples of mr.gates … he was ‘average’ or rather ‘below average’ , yet mr.gates rewrote a few DOS progs to form microsoft ( he was a college dropout. although in his case i’m not too sure about whether his folks slacked either) . so the point i wanna drive home is that the performance of a student is not directly proportional to his success at work..
point3: through my experience ( u can say i got lucky :-) ) i can say that the score of a person in school,college or graduation isn’t the selection criteria for a job . see i believe that the written exam, is still that- an EXAM.. anyone whos good in the subject or the basics of it will get through but the real test is facing the interview.. however brilliant the student, he WILL NOT get thrugh if he isnt up for the moment. (again speaking thru experience)..

all in all, i’d say its controversial but i’d have to appreciate the topic . it was much ( oh hell it was a huge issue in college believe you me!!! ) debated in college. But, lets face it, more often than not, ur right.

Shirsha says:

Shourya, thanks for the comment. Here’s my response to the points you have raised _

*”what would seem like average to you or me would be the perch of happiness for few”
Yes, you are right, one could be happy being just average, or one could be frustrated being just average. But what happens when a student who is capable of bigger things, scores average and his parents/he himself lets it at that and continues to be blissful abt it? The streak of ambition is necessary to reach your highest mark!
That is what I was referring to when I say, kids who’ve always been happy being average, will continue to be so.

*You have taken the example of Mr Gates, the right example to use! But hey, I want to quote what our Director in college mentioned in his farewell speech to us. “Though we always take the Gates example of how one must not be let down by college performances, have you ever wondered, why Gates or his company never recruits college dropouts themselves!?”
That was a truly remarkable point he made, and I learnt that day that figures do count in the long run!

*Then interview is again as much lop-sided as is in the exam. I have myself screwed up interviews because I lost my nerves, or gave up half way through, or assumed I wasn’t good enough, or couldn’t just communicate my ideas well! So even an interview is not a fair measure of how well the candidate has got his fundas right!

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